How do you say that India is in illegal occupation of Kashmir?

The people of kashmir say this,No?We only supported the poor chaps - and that blasted Musharaaf(thank God we got rid of him),stopped doing even that.

Majority of the people who vote and elect their representative for the Jammu and Kashmir Assembly say that Pakistan has illegally occupied a certain part of the state’s territory.

Which KasHmiri tells you? POK Kashmiri?

Ramesh please read some independent history of the partition, and you ll be able to discuss the issue better with me.

Regards,

Hassan, i agree on Kashmir and i have my own views on musharraf, do take a read

http://subillings.blogspot.com/2008_08_01_archive.html

I have read Lord Mountbatten’s version. Maharaja Hari singh’s version, UN resolution on Kashmir. Check the instrument of accession, at the link given below, yourself:-

http://www.indianembassy.org/policy/kashmir/kashmiraccession.htm

Please give me the link of your source, which is independent, in your opinion as you say, and does not quote a wrong version of History, as you have quoted now. hassanbhai is too prejudiced to tell the truth in totality. His truth is lop sided and half baked, at times; and therefore unreliable.

I totally agree with you my friend. It is the power of the press which US has to make fake stories and driven the whole world away from the truth for its own good only. I’ve seen so many reporters from US media, CNN, and FOX NEWS for example, the lie in front of my eyes and unfortunately, the world believe them and does not believe us at all. In addition, who cares about Africans or Iranians or Palestinians? Everybody cares about Israelis and Americans. I give one example of that; Israel is hold more than 11,000 of Palestinians ”half of them are kids” in its prisons, hundreds of them are arrested without any clear accuse and even without any trail. those thousands are not mentioned at all; taking into account that there are hundreds of them whom are civilians and were taken from their own houses by Israeli army, who cares. However, you can easily notice the big propaganda that is been made and still ongoing for only one Israeli soldier ”Shaleet” who had been took by Palestinian resistance during a military operation, taking into account that this soldier was in Gaza land ”not Israeli land even if the whole presence of Israel itself is occupation term”. The whole world is putting high pressure on Palestinians to release one Israeli and putting no pressure at all on Israel to release thousands of Palestinians, taking into account that some of them are even parliament elected members.

Dear Azzam,
Your letter is the true voice of not only the isreali oppressed palestinians but you ase also the voice of
The Iraqi occupation, The Bosnian War
The Kosovo War
The Lebanon conflict,The invasion of Afghanistan,
Syrian occupation of Lebanon
The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) cartoons controversy
The Sudanese Civil War
Israel-Lebanon conflict
The Pope Benedict XVI controversy over remarks quoted him.
The ongoing Darfur conflict
The ongoing standoff with Iran over its Nuclear program, The ongoing Second Chechen War,The ongoing Waziristan War
The ongoing Islamic Insurgency in the Philippines
The ongoing war in Somalia
the entire population of Palestinians, Kashmiris,Somalians,Eritreans, where ever the humanity is suffereing at its most!!!

for you my friend and many like you i have words of solace from edward said

“Remember the solidarity shown to Palestine here and everywhere... and remember also that there is a cause to which many people have committed themselves, difficulties and terrible obstacles notwithstanding. Why? Because it is a just cause, a noble ideal, a moral quest for equality and human rights.”

regards,

sumera bilgrami

Bravo Mr. Ramesh. Kudos for giving a fitting reply to all these biased write ups. I think the bloggers of Pakistan have nothing else to do except point fingers at India or the western media.

Pakistan survives on false propaganda towards India, India bashing, hate India campaign, etc. Paksitan was created on religious grounds and therefore has to show India in poor light by finding faults with the country, Hinduism, etc,; and showing Pakistan as superior in all spheres. Most of Pakistanis have been brought up in that environment. And they believe that if a lie is told 100 times, it will become the truth. I don’t blame them. Their mindset needs correction.

Thanks to Rashmi and Ramesh for calling a spade a spade.The bloggers from Pakistan seems to be on par with frogs in the well . They refuse not only to see the truth but are experts in manipulating the facts for their vested interests .Yes , Western media is guilty of suppressing the truth but who can deny the fact that Islamic terrorism is spreading like a jungle fire in most parts of the world ? The mindsets of the Pakistani people have failed to evolve with time much like the destiny of nation bogged down by the medieval hotchpotch !!!!

Thank you for encouragement, Reshmi madam.

Thanks Arvind.

dear Mr Ramesh Balam

you have recieved compliments on my blogs behalf which i congratulate u on.

i would like to clarify that this discussion will continue only if it has to be beyond average prejudice and ”propaganda” war that our governemts convince us to have, other wise we have many who seek violent and abusive solutions in the world.

i have been to india and i have met pure indian peopele who have welcomed me with an open heart and mind despite my standing on kashmir issue.

my request was for you to not go to your own government’s website but an ”independent” source , which meant neither indian nor pakitsani source!!

kindly understand where does this conflict come from from a humanitarian ground instaed of plain argument for the sake of argument.

there are thousands of websites available on the real problem of kashmir and attaempts to demilitarized
it from indian perspective.

go to

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/south_asia/2002/kashmir_flashpoint/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kashmir_dispute

http://search.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/search/results.pl?q=kashmir&uri=%2Faccessibility%2F


http://www.kashmiri-cc.ca/un/

http://www.zackvision.com/weblog/2003/11/my-life-in-kashmir-4.html

plus the following resolutions in the UN accepted by the whole world except the Indian government.

Resolution 38 (1948) adopted by the Security Council at its 229th Meeting held on 17 January 1948

Resolution 39 (1948) adopted by the Security Council at its 230th Meeting held on 20 January 1948

Draft Resolution presented by the President of the Security Council and the Rapporteur on 6 February 1948

Resolution 47 (1948) adopted by the Security Council at its 286th Meeting held on 21 April 1948

Resolution 51 (1948) adopted by the Security Council at its 312th Meeting held on 3 June 1948

Resolution adopted by the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan on 13 August 1948

Resolution adopted by the United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan on 5 January 1949

Proposal in respect of Jammu and Kashmir made by General A.G.L. McNaughton, President of the Security Council of the United Nations on 22 December 1949

Resolution 80 (1950) adopted by the Security Council at its 470th Meeting held on 14 March 1950

Resolution 91 (1951) adopted by the Security Council at its 539th Meeting held on 30 March 1951

Resolution 96 (1951) adopted by the Security Council al its 566th Meeting held on 10 November 1951

Resolution 98 (1952) adopted by the Security Council at its 611th Meeting held on 23 December 1952

Resolution 122 (1957) adopted by the Security Council at its 765th Meeting held on 24 January 1957

Draft Resolution presented by Australia, Cuba, U.K. and U.S.A. on 14 February 1957

Resolution 123 (1957) adopted by the Security Council at its 774th Meeting held on 21 February 1957

Draft Resolution presented by Australia, Columbia,Philippines on 16 November 1957

Resolution 126 (1957) adopted by the Security Council at its 808th Meeting held on 2 December 1957

Draft Resolution submitted by Ireland to the Security Council on June 22, 1962

Statement of the President of the Security Council (French Representative) made on the 18 May 1964 at the 1117th Meeting of the Council (Document No. S/PV. 1117, dated the 18 May l964) summarizing the conclusion of the debate on Kashmir

Resolution 209 (1965) adopted by the Security Council at its 1237th Meeting held on 4 September 1965

Resolution 210 (1965) adopted by the Security Council at its 1238th Meeting held on 6 September 1965

Resolution 211 (1965) adopted by the Security Council at its 1242nd Meeting held on 20 September 1965

Resolution 214 (1965) adopted by the Security Council at its 1245th Meeting held on 27 September 1965

Resolution 215 (1965) adopted by the Security Council at its1251st Meeting held on 5 November 1965

Resolution 303 (1971) adopted by the Security Council at its1606th Meeting held on 6 December 1971

Question considered by the Security Council at its 1606th, 1607th and 1608th Meetings held on 4,5 and 6 December 1971

Resolution 307 (1971) adopted by the Security Council at its 1616th Meeting held on 21 December 1971

regards

’UN Resolution On Kashmir Irrelevant - Kofi Anan’

….UN resolutions on Kashmir did not come under Chapter 7 of the UN charter and were, therefore, not self-enforcing. Unlike the resolutions on East Timor and Iraq, which come under that particular chapter, the Kashmir resolutions require the cooperation of both parties for implementation……[ March 2001 During his brief interaction with the media at Pakistan’s Chakala military ].


**************************************

What is the Kashmir Issue?



C UN Security Council resolutions 38-40, and particularly the resolution of August 13, 1948, said that Pakistan had attacked Kashmir, and ordered Pakistan to withdraw its forces and its tribals. Pakistan has yet to obey UN Security Council and withdraw from lands (now called POK, Pak Occupied Kashmir) controlled illegally.



C Recently released documents reveal that in 1948, the then US Secretary of State Gen. George C. Marshall told the pro-Pak British that Kashmir=s accession with India was legal and final as far as US was concerned.



C In 1952, the Kashmir legislature, elected in elections recognized by observers as free and fair, with 100% of the legislators Muslim, voted to ratify Kashmir=s accession with India.



C Pakistan gave away large part of the POK to China, which now claims those lands as its own.

************************************

Recent Documents have Revealed

l 1948: US Secretary of State Gen. George C. Marshall told the British that Kashmir’s accession with India was legal and final as far as US was concerned.

l Therefore the lie of “Kashmir being a disputed territory” is very disturbing while it has further emboldened the position of Islamic militants.


***************************************

PAKISTAN Invaded Kashmir
October 22, 1947

l Commanded by General Akbar Khan, later promoted to Chief of Pakistan’s army.
l “Tribesmen” included many Pakistan Army officers and men, in and out of uniform. C3I and artillery provided by regular Pakistan Army
- Just like the Taliban Army, 2001.

l Entire villages e.g. Baramula, Rajouri and Poonch were destroyed by the Pakistani army while committing murder, rape and plunder.

l Rather than any negotiated settlement, Pakistan chose the route of brute force in 1947.
l Is this out of concern for Kashmiris?

Pakistan attacked Baramul Kashmir: October 1947
l Killing 7,000 in a town of 10,000 people
l Especially brutal to Sikhs, whom the Pakistani army labeled as ”Ball Walle Kafir”, the non-believer with hair.

l Destroyed the hospitals, Hindu and Sikh temples and the church of Baramula.
l Skardu (POK): Radio message from Pak Commander to Pak HQ: “Skardu liberated. All Sikhs killed. All women raped”.

Ruler of Kashmir appealed to India for help
l Why? Because Kashmir’s small state army was no match for the Pakistani army.


Instrument of Accession to India was signed
l October 1947: Lord Mountbatten, the Governor General of India accepted the Kashmiri ruler’s request to join the Indian Union
l A legal document called the Instrument of Accession was signed between India and the Kashmiri ruler.
l This same document was also signed by the other 584 princely states.

Constitution of Jammu & Kashmir - updated reprint 1995
l “Sounder than Texas’s accession to the USA, Kashmir’s accession to India is legal, final, binding and irrevocable”.
Source: A S Anand Chief Justice of Supreme Court of India - p. 96


Kashmir is saved from Pakistani invasion
l October 1947: Lord Mountbatten asked India to send its troops to save Kashmir from Pakistani aggression.
l Indian Premier Nehru insisted on Sheikh Abdullah being freed from prison as condition for Indian intervention.
l Indian troops were sent with the enthusiastic consent of Sheikh Abdullah
Source: Lord Mountbatten’s diaries

Sheikh Abdullah
l October 1947: Kashmir’s popular Moslem leader Sheikh Abdullah supported Kashmir’s accession to India
l Of interest: Earlier Sheikh Abdullah had demonstrated against the Kashmiri ruler for greater democracy & civil rights.
l Now: Sheikh Abdullah expressed the sentiments of the majority of Kashmiri people in a famous speech.

A key point of Sheikh Abdullah’s speech
l ”We the people of Jammu and Kashmir, have thrown our lot with the Indian people, not in a heat of passion or a moment of despair, but by a deliberate choice.” Sheikh Abdullah: October 1947

First Muslim leader of Kashmir was appointed by India
l October 31, 1947: Sheikh Abdullah a Moslem was appointed Head of the Kashmir Emergency Administration
l Then was made the first Prime Minister of Kashmir. His was the first people’s popular government in Kashmir.
l For most of the time since 1947, AND TODAY, “Indian-Kashmir” has been ruled by the National Conference Party of Sheikh Abdullah and always headed by a Moslem.

Pakistan’s pattern of aggression
l Initially Pakistan denied having sent troops into Kashmir in October 1947
l Subsequently admitted by Pakistani leaders and army officers.
l This is a consistent Pakistani pattern in 1947, 1948, 1965, 1971 and recently in 1999 in Kargil.
l Same tactic used in Afghanistan, where 40% of the Taliban’s Officer corps and 30% of its troops were Pakistani, until Operation Enduring Freedom began.

United Nations: Jan 1, 1948
l India complained to the UN so as to get Pakistan to end Pakistani aggression against India in Jammu and Kashmir.
Noteworthy
Despite military superiority even in 1947 India did not want to use force to vacate the Indian territory in Kashmir occupied by Pakistan.
l Instead, India turned to the UN. If India had believed in a military solution on Kashmir, it could have done so in 1965, 1971 and 1999. And today.

The United Nations Security Council
l UN avoided taking sides between India and Pakistan.
l UN did not even question the legality of Kashmir’s accession to India.
l Doing such would be like questioning the legality of the very partition of British India into India and Pakistan.

United Nations Appointed a Commission: 1948
l Under Charter 6: to mediate between India and Pakistan
l UN stated the issue is for India and Pakistan to resolve & these resolutions are NOT a directive, only recommendations.
l Four UN resolutions were issued on April 21, 1948, August 13, 1948, Jan. 5, 1949 and March 14, 1950.


UN Resolution: Jan 5, 1949
Called for three actions in this sequential order
l (1) First, Pakistan must withdraw all its troops and all non-Kashmiris from Kashmir.
l (2) Next India should withdraw bulk of its troops RETAINING those required for law and order; all those who had left Kashmir (on both sides) as refugees should be allowed to return.
l AND ONLY THEREAFTER ascertain the wishes of the Kashmiri people in both portions of Kashmir under UN supervision.

Pakistan violated the UN Resolution
l Pakistan is non-compliant: has not withdrawn its occupied forces thereby violated the first of the 3 actions outlined by the UN resolution.
l ON the contrary India has only permitted Kashmiris to own land in India’s Kashmir per Article 170 of the Indian Constitution and per UN resolution.
2 Questions
1) Is Pakistan willing to implement step one even now by withdrawing its military from the portion of Kashmir it has occupied by aggression in 1947?
2) If refugees are allowed to return and claim their lands, would that include the non-Moslem citizens?
These are Kashmiri Pandits - 400,000 to 600,000 are still living as Displaced Persons today.


Pakistan-Occupied Kashmir (POK)
l Lacks all democratic institutions. Administered by a Pakistani “minister for Azad Kashmir” or Military Governor appointed by Islamabad.
l Pakistan officially disallows the option of an independent Kashmir. If anyone in POK raises that demand, it is an act of treachery and punishable by death. POK residents must sign Oath of Loyalty to Pakistan to get ration cards.
l Residents of the “Northern Areas” of Gilgit/Baltistan are afforded no citizenship rights


Pakistan Refused to Withdraw
l Pakistan has consistently refused to withdraw its forces from the Pakistan-occupied Kashmir portion.
l Instead, Pakistan joined big power blocks and received massive military and economic aid from the West.

Sorce :
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/truth_on_kashmir_and_terrorism_in_india.htm

plesae go to

http://subil.instablogs.com/entry/us-is-lying-again/

and give ur views on kashmir

arvind

kofi anan was a loser jackass minting money heading a headless UN thats sitting in newyork under the US pressure and funding!

i really dont think kashmir is an issue to him!! like iraq wasnt and palestine isnt and afghanistan isnt!!

tell me, why not let kashmiris express and have their say in a secular india if india thus is secular?

why the violence in kashmir? why are women being raped and kids getting killed? let the kashmiris decide if they wanto side with india?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/India/Kashmir_violence_4_killed_in_police_firing/articleshow/3402165.cms

Dear Sumera Bilgrami ,

Your sweeping comments are devoid of substance . The character assassination of Kofi would not serve the purpose.I can also state that all these so-called independent sources are biased towards Kashmir issue . Instead of entering in war-of-words ,it’s better that let the facts speak for themselves . The above facts clearly establish that Pakistan is guilty of violating the UN resolutions .

Lastly ,you should not forget that free and fair elections were held in J&K , under the supervision of foreign agencies . No need to tell the fact that so-called azadi seekers were shown the door by the J&K people in the elections. There is no point in being dictated by the vain demands of the separatists .It’s another thing that whipping the dead horse is favourite pastime of the Pakistani rulers.It’s the only way to win the hearts of deluded souls there !!!

dear mr Arvind,

so you think your judging an entire nation over kashmir is not chracter assassination? and you rae sensitive to kofi anan?

thank you for YOUR sweeping argument.

good and bad people are every where and and every culture has its demons,

if islamic terrorrists are such a threat what happens when Hindus and Christians clash over burnt churches in a secular India?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/india/2640145/Hindus-and-Christians-clash-over-burnt-churches-in-India.html

and i wont even mention gujarat violence here,
kashmir government is a puppet, with muslim majority, why is only the army and the security forces presesnt to run srinagar if it is so safe to vote out there?

why is there curfew every few days? does mumbai run like that too?


my concern for kashmir is that it should have the most BASIC human right that a secular indian government is violating!

”fundamental human rights, is the dignity and worth of the human person and in the equal rights of men and women....”

Human rights, as defined by the declaration, were the right to life, the right to practice religious beliefs, and the right to fair treatment under the law for all people.

and kashmiris have been DENIED these rights for punishments for siding with paksitan at partition. Can u ask ur government to take good care of kashmiri muslims, or do hate them too?

Don’t worry about the breach of fundamental rights there . The J&K High Court is there to look into such matters . Shedding copious tears is not going to turn white lies into truth .

@ Sumera ,

Instead of new thrust on the alleged illegal occupation of Kashmir by India , it’s better if you are more rational while applying your mind to the Kashmir issue . What makes you insensitive regards the plight of Kashmiri pandits ? What would be the fate of so-called Azad Kashmir in Pakistan ? Won’t it get marginalized like PoK and be devoid of basic ameneties in Pakistan marred by Talibanization ?First let Pakistan develop into a better state from a failed state and then think of owning Kashmir ....Ghar Mein Nahi Daana Aur Amma Chali Bhunane..

sure Mr Arvind!! Ur heightened callousness doesnt baffle me.

With the blatently obvious right of kashmiris to be independent of illegal indian occupation that you have decided not to see! with the help of the same kofi anan supporting the same right of accession in kososvo!
and innocent children getting killed and women getting raped every day with half of muslim kashmiri population driven out or going through a localised genocide i could surly trust a puppet indian high court to do justice!
NOT!

@ Sumera ,

Instead of new thrust on the alleged illegal occupation of Kashmir by India , it’s better if you are more rational while applying your mind to the Kashmir issue . What makes you insensitive regards the plight of Kashmiri pandits ? What would be the fate of so-called Azad Kashmir in Pakistan ? Won’t it get marginalized like PoK and be devoid of basic ameneties in Pakistan marred by Talibanization ?First let Pakistan develop into a better state from a failed state and then think of owning Kashmir ....Ghar Mein Nahi Daana Aur Amma Chali Bhunane..

http://www.globalpolicy.org/nations/sovereign/sover/emerg/2008/0522kosovo.htm